What grease are you using ?

What would be failing in the hub when the races do not appear to be spun (looking in the notch for punching out the race, the end of the race has no shiny wear marks).  Are the bearings gradually wearing, or the bearing contact surface of the race?  Races and bearings look good, and bearings are greased and spin smoothly.

I've never replaced the hubs as they were the ones that came with my 7.5" brake setup used from the UK, so it is not unreasonable to consider that they may be due for replacement.  I only like to know what is wearing when it is not obvious by looking at the usual suspects.  If the spacer is not worn, I'm assuming that the bearing pre-load is going away somehow, which could either be the bearings, races or hubs.  

Rick, mine doesnt seem to loosen up after a traumatic road event; it just happens after regular and spirited driving over a short amount of miles.  Even though it happens 1.5 to 2 years apart, this is only a few thousand miles for me, and I've done this at least 5 or 6 times over the past 11 years.

For those who have had wheels develop a wobble...did this happen after a sharp shock from hitting a bump or pot hole at speed?

The reason I ask is that the only time I had a torque come drive flange failure was after hitting a big pot hole at 65 mph on the interstate crossing Missouri (the fact that the trailer Hunny Pot got airborne on hitting the pot hole was also interesting).

Buy a new set of hubs, they are just not that expensive. Also be sure you are getting Timken bearings. I tend to set my drive flanges up index and skim the bearing contact face a couple of thou. I have made a couple of mounts ( 3x12 5/8 steel bar stock ) with a V cut to allow the hub in close enough to bolt the hub up via the caliper holes. I chuck it up in the vise and assemble the hub ball joints and bearings and without the seals in place I install a CV and the drive flange I will be using. With a dial indicator I can find out how much play there is. I have saved all spacers I have replaced over the years as well as having stock on hand to machine custom if required. I also have sone Mk1 door glass with emery glued to it to adjust. I know it's hard in place but maybe you can set up a dial indicator and check in out movement now. Strip everything and measure the thickness of the shoulder that backs up the bearing outer races. Steve (CTR)

Well I'm back at it again.  My right front wheel wobbles 1/4" top to bottom and I've probably done 2000 miles since the last new spacer.  It was definitely tight and with the correct preload when I did it.  

This is has been typical for me for the last 8 to 10 years to have my hubs start to wobble every few years, and I replace the drive flanges, install new spacers or adjust what's in there, and then things are right for a while.  

Im very perplexed as to why my wheels get wobbly every few thousand miles? 

RWD cars have no spacer as you say. But all FWD cars need the assembly torqued up tight so power can transmit through it. Modern FWD cars all have a `unit bearing' (2 bearings in 1) there so don't have this separate spacer problem.
Bottom line- YES you DO need the spacer in there, but it has to be the right length to give .001-.002" preload when the nut is torqued up.

I am glad Im not the only one that has this problem. I thought I was going crazy as both front wheels keep getting a wobble. I would re-pack the bearing an they were fine but as the grease worked out an made a mess on my front rims, the play would come back.

Now has anybody just removed the spacer an ran it without it? Seems the spacer is mainly the problem as it does not allow the bearings to seat with the race correctly. All of the cars I have worked on besides Mini's have never had a spacer between the front hub bearings and have never failed or allowed this much play.

Yes, 60 is correct. The torque limit relates to the thread size, not the bearing type. 150ft/lb on a drum CV and you'll either strip or break it... I've seen it happen.

what would torque it up to if you were using drum brakes and tapered bearings?

would it still be 60lbs just like if you were using standard roller bearings?

If the drive flange has a groove in the end but the spline is still a good fit, I have built them up with nickel bronze rod and oxy/propane, then remachined to original thickness.
I have also reclaimed lots of drum and 997/998 Cooper drive flanges with bearing seat wear, the same way.

Nickel bronze work hardens, it makes a good bearing seat.

I take the same amount off of the inner face of the drive flange (area behind the wheel mounting surface) as I do the inside of the flange where it contacts the outer bearing. This moves the wheel inside slightly, but you can do this procedure several times in the life of the hub. 

Do you machine the inner face of the drive flange? I set them up in a flywheel grinder and touch the face. Always surprised at the amount of wear.

Steve (CTR)

I agree.  This last time I torqued the single hole axle nut to 150, but it didn't line up with the castellation so I torqued past it.  I'm sure it was between 175 and 185 ft lb. Previously I torqued the single hole axle nut to 200 ft lb.  The depression and ridge in the hub flange and CV flange where they contact the outer and inner bearing, tells me that 200 is pushing the limit of what the non case-hardened steel of the hub and CV are designed to be torqued to.  I have always felt that the 200 ft lb figure was a bit excessive.  188 at the very top end.  

I found a grade-8 washer with 3/4 ID and filed it out to fit the axle.  The OD is just shy of the cone washer OD, so this will space the castle nut outboard enough to safely engage a cotter pin deep inside the crowns.  I will set my torque wrence to 175 ft lb max and see where the hole lines up.  

I've always thought that the torque figures are the wrong way round.
The bit of the CV doing the work is behind or inside the nut - the holes are irrelevent by the time the torque wrench has clicked.

150 lb-ft plus a castellation is an extra 1/12 turn max for a 2-hole.
200 lb-ft plus a castellation is an extra 1/6 turn max for a single hole and is a massive amount.

It makes more sense to me if the numbers were the otehr way round, as the resultant torque would be closer.

Torque values from Haynes - 150 ft-lbs is for multiple hole shafts.  Single hole shafts require 188-200 ft-lbs and further until the next slots align with the hole.

Looks like I'm on this job again - for the left side this time.  I've only done about 500 miles, but upon inspection of something else I noticed a HUGE amount of left wheel play.  The top of the tire rocked in and out about 1 inch!  I took it apart and noticed a few things.  The crown nut looks like it loosened, and the cotter pin is bent and mangled, and the crowns are partly sheered off.  The axle and hub splines still seem OK.  Bearings and races look OK too, but I'm going to inspect them closer.  The hub and CV joint surface where the outer and inner bearing contacts them show some wear and a lip as if the bearing was tightened too hard and pressing into them.  I torqued to 150 ft lb as it is the single hole axle.  

I recall that the crown nut was pretty far to the inside of the axle hole when tight, but I still felt that the pin engaged in the crowns enough to prevent it from spinning.  Guess I was wrong.  

I don't have a washer between the nut and cone washer, but will have to have one to bring the nut out where it needs to be.  Is there supposed to be one there?  If not, hub wear at the bearing contact point would be the cause I suppose, or a crown nut that is not thick enough.  

Strange stuff.  I've never experienced a wheel that felt loose enough to just fall off.  I can't believe I couldn't feel it while driving, as my last drive was a fast drive on a twisty road with several steep drop offs!   

IB65, I was checking a set of 7.5s today and the bearings were to loose to suit me. I set up checked and found .003 end float. With a wheel and tire mounted there would have been a slight wobble. I'm thinking ,007 would have felt like the wheel was going to fall off. The fun part is when I pulled it apart there were new style built in spacer ball bearings. Now thats a tough fit but I got it done. I was told that hub eats a bearing kit every 30,000 miles. These were new and not yet driven on. I look forward to hearing how long these last.

Steve

All machined up, hardened and ready to go in!

Thanks for the help guys!

I set my hubs up this way years ago, they have now done probably 100,000 miles and bearings are still good.
Last month when the RH CV boot need replacing I just pulled the 2 bearings, eyeballed the rollers and tracks, repacked with lithium grease, and fitted new seals. All still good- no slack.

No prob IB65, the wife says I stay up late and get up early to make life hard. If she thinks living with me is hard she should try being me. As we all know parts are harder to find, cost more and don't fit out of the box any longer. I think you are on the right track. I find myself blue printing everything I can. I guess that's how I got 80,00 trouble free miles out of my 1000E.

Steve