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 Mini drive shaft issues, expert advice needed!

 Created by: thommythommy
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 Posted: Jan 2, 2017 09:36AM
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I didn't properly seat the drive shaft into the CV the first time around- this was apparent when I started the engine and the left side drive shaft was turning freely .  I disassembled the hub, pulled the shaft/CV, seated correctly on the bench, the reassembled the whole brake/hub.  This solved the problem, and taught me how to do it right if I ever needed to do it again in the future..

Now the engine and drive train is fully assembled:  https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhiXIr6WM_DGlBAN3zscQ1gQ813x

I am having another issue with instant power- seems like a carb problem.  I will start a new thread topic to discuss.

Thanks everyone!

 Posted: Jan 1, 2017 08:13AM
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Update:

I removed the CV from the drive shaft that came with my 1100 A-series engine.  I found that the splines of the drive shaft are a match to the CV on the "Maxi" CV (I am still unsure if this was actually a maxi part or another mini part...either way I am not certain why the CV's differed slightly).  With a little persuasion I was able to assemble all of the parts and they seem to be working together well. 

I am sure there is an easy way to install the engine/drive shafts...at least easier than the method I used yesterday.  I probably need to invest in a shop manual.

I rigged up a simple harness and fuel and started the engine- she started on the first few cranks.  These engines never cease to amaze me.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhiXIr6WM_DGlA_l5Z8ztEPrNVdu

On a side note, if anyone is interested in a pair of 1500cc E-series engines I will be getting rid of them for very, very cheap.  I only have one shifting mechanism (cable shift).

Thanks again to everyone for their help.  I will post more regarding this car's first drive in 20 years if I am able to get a simple exhaust sorted today.


 Posted: Dec 30, 2016 07:41AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1963SV2
Hi Tom.... not sure how much further you could stray from "pseudo-original".. :)

While the Maxis I'm familiar with came with an E Series engine in place of the earlier A Series (as fitted to the Mini), maybe early ones used the same power train as the Austin 1100 aka Austin America???? Looks like an A Series in your pictures.  Noting that the Maxi is much wider than a Mini I can't see the drive shafts being shorter; but I'm not familiar enough with the ADO16 set-up to have any particular opinion....

The main power plant difference will be the diff ratio.  As the 1100 range had bigger wheels they used a lower diff; one not realy suited to a Mini.  This can be easilly changed - the PO may already have done so.

More importantly, the 1100s used differnt front end/suspension bits ..and these are not readily adapted to the Mini.  I'm really not too familiar with the 1100 setup but it included different hubs(uprights), drive flanges and brakes.... don't know about CVs.  I'm somewhat surprised that the Mini parts were changed originally as this is not usually necessary when installing an "America" motor....

As you have a "custom" setup you really need someone to have a close look to determine what's Mini and what's not.  

IMHO your easiest path is second hand Mini uprights and new 8.4 inch drive flanges, discs and calipers.... and drive shafts

Cheers, Ian

PS.. had another look at your pictures...  I'm assuming that the last one shows the wheel end of the Maxi (on left) and Mini (on right) shafts???? You do realise that the Maxi CV joint is still in the hub while the Mini one is on the end of the drive shaft and has to replace the one in the hub???
 Similarly the splines on the orange cylinder thingy (Maxi inner joint) go inside the diff, whereas the Mini drive shaft has a joint (which comes in several different versions) that slips over the splines poking out of the diff case you show????

I think you need more hands on assitance.....  Although just installing Mini drive bits (as a package) is no big deal

Cheers
Ian, Maxi's only came with two OHC engine options the 1500 and the 1750 both visually the same.

Thommy, i would look for a set of used complete hub assemblies with driveshafts and cv's either 7.5" or 8.4" depending what size wheel you want to run, stay away from the early 7" ones. Or you could just search for a set of used axles to determine what you really already have in place right now.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Dec 29, 2016 06:35AM
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Thank you again.  This is extremely helpful.  I am going to get back to the shop and do some investigating with the parts I have based on what you said.

As you mentioned, there are definitely parts I can replace for the sake of safety and reliability (pads and the like).

I will post again after I take some time to dissect a little more.

Thanks,
Tom

 Posted: Dec 28, 2016 09:53PM
 Edited:  Dec 28, 2016 10:22PM
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"...Thanks for the quick reply! A lot of helpful comments....."

Hopefully,   It is difficult when what you say may not be what I thought I heard..

"....I should clear some things up so we are on the same page:
By 1100 engine, I mean a 1098cc A-series from an Innocenti Mini.Nota Austin America 1100 engine (regardless, I am sure the Austin America and the Mini were both A-series engines so I dont know if there would be an compatibility issues other than the ration). Everything else is standard for a mini (rod-change type)...."

Then it should slot straight in ..depending on what mods were done to the subframe for the previous engine...

"...Regarding your PS- Yes I am aware of both of these points you have addressed regarding the CV/hub and the diff. (I am not definitely not an expert, but I did recognize a few these in the process)...."

Sorry

"....I was actually placing a few of these images to see if anyone could recognize as original mini parts or otherwise (difficult from images, I know)...."

From left to right....

1.  May be 8.4 inch (i.e. late model) Mini ... but I've not actually seen the Maxi items...
2.  Same ...  vertical relationship between ball joints doesn't look "Mini" ..but may be just angle of photo..
3, 4, 5.  Definitely not Mini
6. The opposite end of 5??? Looks bit thick to be Mini..
7.  Looks like Mini with pot joint outputs - should have circumferential groove (like 6) for pot joint circlip to lock into.
8.  Left hand: suspect not Mini.  Right hand:  looks Mini 

"...Considering I was bottoming out, I was wondering if the drive shafts and CV joint I have are intended for drum brakes, rather than discs? .."  

Drum and disc sets look pretty much the same except that the disc types are larger.  All drum types are the same as are all disc types.... (Maybe....early 7" Cooper discs use the common disc uprights but may use the smaller CV - can't remember exactly). However...  there are different inner joints.  Rubber universal, Hardy Spicer (metal) universal and pot joint (which also comes in a couple of versions).  Each has its own type of diff output (and diff side plate) but are interchangeable as a set.  Rubber unis will interchange with pot joints ... and will work but is not pretty ....  All types are interchangeable with disc or drum outers.

"..Was this common?.."

????

"...Does anyone recommend any specific "kits" rather than putting together a bunch of parts (that I could easily get wrong the first time)?.."

All the usual suspects sell "drum to disc" kits - which will contain everything you need - apart from the drive shafts and inner joint - Just bring $$$$$$$ (well.. maybe not that many

However, what you already have will determine what new bits you will need... I would suggest discs, pads, CVs, bearings and possibly drive flanges are the minimum with callipers and uprights (including ball joints) being maybes.

"....My apologies- I am new to Mini culture. Most of my background is in AH and Triumph..."

Which is why it helps to have some experienced eyes on

Cheers, Ian

Side note:
The previous owner did many strange things. Changing the engine, de-seaming the body, and ripping out the dash for a "custom look" being the tip of the iceberg. I welded in the new dash a few weeks ago, now time to finish any needed fabrication in the engine before prepping the body for paint. All-in-all, its a straight body with no rust and "minor" needs (this being one of them). Plus, I enjoy a challenging project.

 Posted: Dec 28, 2016 07:32PM
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Thanks for the quick reply!  A lot of helpful comments.

I should clear some things up so we are on the same page:
By 1100 engine, I mean a 1098cc A-series from an Innocenti Mini.Nota Austin America 1100 engine (regardless, I am sure the Austin America and the Mini were both A-series engines so I dont know if there would be an compatibility issues other than the ration).  Everything else is standard for a mini (rod-change type).

Regarding your PS- Yes I am aware of both of these points you have addressed regarding the CV/hub and the diff.  (I am not definitely not an expert, but I did recognize a few these in the process).  I was actually placing a few of these images to see if anyone could recognize as original mini parts or otherwise (difficult from images, I know).  Considering I was bottoming out, I was wondering if the drive shafts and CV joint I have are intended for drum brakes, rather than discs?   Was this common?

Does anyone recommend any specific "kits" rather than putting together a bunch of parts (that I could easily get wrong the first time)? 



My apologies- I am new to Mini culture.  Most of my background is in AH and Triumph.

Side note:
The previous owner did many strange things.  Changing the engine, de-seaming the body, and ripping out the dash for a "custom look" being the tip of the iceberg.  I welded in the new dash a few weeks ago, now time to finish any needed fabrication in the engine before prepping the body for paint.  All-in-all, its a straight body with no rust and "minor" needs (this being one of them).  Plus, I enjoy a challenging project.

Tom

 Posted: Dec 28, 2016 05:54PM
 Edited:  Dec 28, 2016 06:08PM
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Hi Tom.... not sure how much further you could stray from "pseudo-original".. :)

While the Maxis I'm familiar with came with an E Series engine in place of the earlier A Series (as fitted to the Mini), maybe early ones used the same power train as the Austin 1100 aka Austin America???? Looks like an A Series in your pictures.  Noting that the Maxi is much wider than a Mini I can't see the drive shafts being shorter; but I'm not familiar enough with the ADO16 set-up to have any particular opinion....

The main power plant difference will be the diff ratio.  As the 1100 range had bigger wheels they used a lower diff; one not realy suited to a Mini.  This can be easilly changed - the PO may already have done so.

More importantly, the 1100s used differnt front end/suspension bits ..and these are not readily adapted to the Mini.  I'm really not too familiar with the 1100 setup but it included different hubs(uprights), drive flanges and brakes.... don't know about CVs.  I'm somewhat surprised that the Mini parts were changed originally as this is not usually necessary when installing an "America" motor....

As you have a "custom" setup you really need someone to have a close look to determine what's Mini and what's not.  

IMHO your easiest path is second hand Mini uprights and new 8.4 inch drive flanges, discs and calipers.... and drive shafts

Cheers, Ian

PS.. had another look at your pictures...  I'm assuming that the last one shows the wheel end of the Maxi (on left) and Mini (on right) shafts???? You do realise that the Maxi CV joint is still in the hub while the Mini one is on the end of the drive shaft and has to replace the one in the hub???
 Similarly the splines on the orange cylinder thingy (Maxi inner joint) go inside the diff, whereas the Mini drive shaft has a joint (which comes in several different versions) that slips over the splines poking out of the diff case you show????

I think you need more hands on assitance.....  Although just installing Mini drive bits (as a package) is no big deal

Cheers

 Posted: Dec 28, 2016 02:42PM
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I am wondering as well if this issue could be due to a different drive shaft due to the difference in years of my parts.  If a simple drive shaft replacement is necessary please let me know.


Thanks,
Tom

 Posted: Dec 28, 2016 02:16PM
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I have been busy restoring my '62 back to pseudo-original condition.  The PO added many parts from an Austin Maxi in attempts to give the car greater performance.  This consisted primarily of grafting the engine, drive shafts, and front brake assembly to the original Mini front subframe.  When I acquired the car, I decided to remove the Maxi engine, but I like the large front brakes.... hence my most recent issue.

Today I was working to put an 1100cc engine in the car with the original Mini shafts.  I noticed the Mini drive shafts are too long for the Austin Maxi front end parts!  The length of the splined shaft to the wheel hub is much longer on the original Mini shaft.  The Mini shafts "bottom out" very quickly in the Maxi assembly...they are not designed to be   In addition, the entire drive shaft is much too long to fit in the front end.

The Maxi also had a very screwy drive shaft design...as far as I am concerned the Maxi drive shaft is not usable.  Follow the link for images.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhiXIr6WM_DGlAhvclhKDtJrqDL1

My question for the experts:  What do you recommend as the best and most cost effective way to move forward?  Price is always a concern, but so is safety.  I believe I have the following options:

  1. 1.  Purchase a new brake/shaft assembly kit from MiniMania (expensive).

2.  Find an expert to customize my original mini drive shafts to fit. (more cost effective?  Also allows for the use of the larger disc brakes). 

If option 2 is considered...does anyone know of a good drive shaft shop in the Midwest?

Let me know your thoughts.  Then again, if anyone has a front end setup they would like to offer I would be willing to discuss.

Thanks,
Tom