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 Posted: Jan 12, 2017 01:37AM
Total posts: 9283
Last post: Apr 27, 2017
Member since:Mar 24, 1999
GB
There might not be bumpstops at the back, but the wider wheels may be hitting the wheelarches.

Metric is for people who can't do fractions...

 Posted: Jan 11, 2017 11:15PM
Total posts: 1303
Last post: Apr 23, 2017
Member since:Oct 18, 2011
One of the problems is that there is no benchmark.... What Derramax finds harsh may well be quite normal to many of us..(as has been mentioned before.)   Maybe you can find another Minista to  do an assessment before throwing too much money at a non existent problem "Its a function not a fault "

"...Back to the original post... the main complaint was concerning the rear.
With 13" tires, we can probably assume the car is not riding on the bump stops..."

Dry cars don't (mostly...) have bump stops.  If you do (there is mention the the car may not be standard) getting rid of them would be step 1.  There's no mention of a roll bar??

"...The gas shocks may not be functioning properly - standard shocks are sufficient and may be an economic solution..."

Unless you have twin tanks this is easily checked...  remove one shock, grab it at each end and push and pull it through its operating range.  At the softest setting you should be able to do this quite comfortably with your hands held out in front of you (i.e. you shouldn't have to put one end down and lean your weight on it to close it....) 

"...The swing arm bearings need to be functional - do the swing arms move properly through their intended range?
The 50 series tires contribute to harshness..."

What are the factory recommended rear pressures for 13" tyres???  You wouldn't want to go too far under this ..but certainly not over...

"..The load on the rear suspension also has an effect on ride - the heavier the load, the more the rubber cones are compressed. They have a progressive spring rate: the more the are loaded, the stiffer they get..."

Although this is part of Issy's genius..  The rubber spring has a rising rate effect - it gets stiffer as it compresses to accomodate varying loads.  The design objective was to provide the same ride comfort with the car full or empty.  There aren't many cars deliberately (and successfully) designed to accommodate loads that are such a high proportion of the bare vehicle weight....

"...The rubber cones may look fine, but depending on their age AND source (manufacturer) AND whether they are stock or competition type, they may be partly collapsed, stiff with age or just too hard to begin with. As they say, looks aren't everything.
Lastly, the Mini ride is inherently harsher than just about every other car. The short wheelbase is a major factor. Most of the weight is on the front wheels, absorbing front harshness. The rear is lightly loaded and is easily bounced about (like an empty small boat or utility trailer)..."

I hadn't really appreciated how stiff my S was until we bought a later cars (a '73) for my Daughter to drive to school.  Following the advice of our local expert I replaced the old front cones with those from the rear of another 70s Clubbie.  It certainly made a difference.

There are opinions that later (13" cars) came with rear trumpets with wider sections where they sit on the cone.. (ir as originally designed for the vans/utes etc) as it provides extra stiffness to compensate for the heavier wheels...  Reducing the width of the flange where it sits on the cone will soften the suspension.......

But I think you should start by finding out whether your car is abnormally stiff....

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Jan 11, 2017 05:49AM
Total posts: 7004
Last post: Apr 27, 2017
Member since:Aug 14, 2002
CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
My 70 has 13" wheels and Gaz adjustable shocks. The car handles great but the ride is really jarring in the rear when I hit a bump. Is this because of the low profile 50 series tires or the Gaz shocks? I adjusted the shocks to the softest setting and lowered the rear PSI to 26-28 psi. Was thinking of trying some KYB shocks and once my tires are worn try a set of 10" mamba wheels. Thoughts? Thanks!
Back to the original post... the main complaint was concerning the rear.
With 13" tires, we can probably assume the car is not riding on the bump stops.
The gas shocks may not be functioning properly - standard shocks are sufficient and may be an economic solution.
The swing arm bearings need to be functional - do the swing arms move properly through their intended range?
The 50 series tires contribute to harshness.
The load on the rear suspension also has an effect on ride - the heavier the load, the more the rubber cones are compressed. They have a progressive spring rate: the more the are loaded, the stiffer they get.
The rubber cones may look fine, but depending on their age AND source (manufacturer) AND whether they are stock or competition type, they may be partly collapsed, stiff with age or just too hard to begin with. As they say, looks aren't everything.
Lastly, the Mini ride is inherently harsher than just about every other car. The short wheelbase is a major factor. Most of the weight is on the front wheels, absorbing front harshness. The rear is lightly loaded and is easily bounced about (like an empty small boat or utility trailer).

Try the car with the boot empty, then loaded with 50 to 100 pounds to see the effect of loading. Rear seat loads an passengers make a big difference.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Jan 10, 2017 08:40PM
 Edited:  Jan 10, 2017 08:43PM
Total posts: 697
Last post: Apr 26, 2017
Member since:Jul 15, 2008
US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
The car handles great but the ride is really jarring…
I'd only ridden in one other Mini before I bought mine—that was years ago and I don't remember the ride characteristics. When I took delivery of my current Mini and drove it home I was surprised at the ride characteristics. I wouldn't describe it as harsh or even hard—I would call it well dampened but very bouncy and choppy. I replaced the cones with blue Delta springs, fitted GAZ shocks and 10" Firestone Double Eagle tires (yeah, I know) and now I would call the ride harsh. Brutally so. Tar strips @ 60 feel like speed bumps. 

I now have Yokohama 030's and that made a huge difference in directional stability and even reduced torque steer significantly, but it remains the "harshest" car I've ever ridden in other a Porsche race car. Passengers wonder if I'm running 100 psi in the tires. Feels like zero suspension travel—rock hard. I think that's just the nature of the beast. I suspect the only way you'll know for sure is by riding in as many Minis as possible for comparison. Good luck.

 Michael, Santa Barbara, CA

. . . the sled, not the flower

 Posted: Jan 10, 2017 04:42PM
Total posts: 19
Last post: Apr 15, 2017
Member since:Jul 19, 2016
Floors and body are in great shape

 Posted: Jan 10, 2017 04:32PM
Total posts: 642
Last post: Apr 27, 2017
Member since:Aug 9, 2016
What's the condition of your flooring?  If the floor has a lot of rust and holes, no matter how soft your suspension is, the  car will shake  and vibrate with a slight bumps on the road. 
Me personally i hate driving a mini or any car that clanks and has a lot of noise inside due to loose things inside like tools, cans of soda, unbolted speakers and radio, unbolted fire extinguisher , loose window lever and door lever, i just can't stand  noise inside the cabin while im driving. 
( good thing my wife is a quiet person, otherwise) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Posted: Jan 10, 2017 02:46PM
Total posts: 19
Last post: Apr 15, 2017
Member since:Jul 19, 2016
Checked and i have rubber cones that appear in good shape. I think the tight shocks and 50 series tires are the problem. If the road was halfway decent around here i wouldn't have a complaint.

 Posted: Jan 4, 2017 09:52AM
 Edited:  Jan 4, 2017 10:01AM
Total posts: 642
Last post: Apr 27, 2017
Member since:Aug 9, 2016
Image Gallery

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Posted: Jan 4, 2017 09:04AM
Total posts: 1213
Last post: Apr 25, 2017
Member since:Oct 30, 2008
The question is: do you have rubber cones (what Mini's usually have) or metal springs (aftermarket & what color are they?) then we can help

 Posted: Jan 4, 2017 07:31AM
Total posts: 19
Last post: Apr 15, 2017
Member since:Jul 19, 2016
Yeah, it used to be in Oakland. Car is loads of fun, don't get me wrong. Just a little harsh on the bumps. I believe the springs were replaced but I'll have a look when i get home.

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 11:59PM
Total posts: 1213
Last post: Apr 25, 2017
Member since:Oct 30, 2008
Where are you located? I think I know that car, get it recently in Oakland? White interior? If it's the one I'm thinking of it's bad ass - can't have stance like that with a little discomfort but there are tons of people on the Bay Area that can look at that n tell you what's going on w the suspension - I can loan you some stock shocks if you want to try some. 

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 10:04PM
Total posts: 6261
Last post: Apr 9, 2017
Member since:Nov 2, 2006
CA
Image Gallery
I have Koni Sport adjustable dampers on the front of the Australian Mini Van set at 1.5 (when I put in the HD tie-rods/control arms & lower arms for camber & caster).  KYB dampers on the rear.  Also have Moulton Smooth-a-Ride rubber cones at the 4 corners. Works well for general driving/touring.


The Konis & adjustable trumpets went on with somewhat better than beaten down rubber cones in Australia and have worked 1st with new 4 red dot rubber cones & 2nd with the new Moulton's.

PHOTO 1 - the worn out old Dunlops removed in North Rocks, NSW (and bump stops also trimmed)

PHOTO 2 - the Konis installed & set at 1 in North Rocks (left front increased to 1.5 in Cairns after some outback driving)

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 04:17PM
Total posts: 6967
Last post: Apr 26, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Moffet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
I really don't know TBH. Any way to tell without removal?
As was said, you can see them from under the car. The rear ones are in the side members of the subframe: when you jack up the car, and the rear wheels hang down you can check the rear cones easily... or see if they are cones or steel springs for that matter. Fronts are harder to see - you may need to take the wheel off or turn the steering full lock.
No need to jack up the car or remove the front wheels. Grab a flashlight and the rears you can see by lying on the ground and the fronts you can see by lifting the bonnet or taking a look with the wheel on full lock if not feel it by reaching over the top of the tyre.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 03:01PM
Total posts: 7004
Last post: Apr 27, 2017
Member since:Aug 14, 2002
CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
I really don't know TBH. Any way to tell without removal?
As was said, you can see them from under the car. The rear ones are in the side members of the subframe: when you jack up the car, and the rear wheels hang down you can check the rear cones easily... or see if they are cones or steel springs for that matter. Fronts are harder to see - you may need to take the wheel off or turn the steering full lock.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 02:09PM
Total posts: 1914
Last post: Mar 26, 2017
Member since:Jan 1, 2005
US
FWIW, here's my experience with GAZ adjustable shocks. I installed a full set, turned each to soft, and went on a tour with a local club. The fronts were so hard the ride was jarring at every road joint, and I mean so hard they felt solid, with no damping at all. I returned the front pair and the replacements worked as they should. On the rear, they've been on too long for warranty replacement, but the right rear adjuster knob rotates freely, with no clicks or stops, nor any difference in damping. And yes, I've tried tightening the set screw on the adjuster knob and that ain't it. It's just too cold in the garage now to tip the tanks in and replace them, but I have a full set of KYB just waiting.

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 01:30PM
Total posts: 6967
Last post: Apr 26, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
You can see them easily when under the car. If the front end sits lower than the rear the rubber cones are usually trashed. It happens more on 90's cars as they changed the spring rate to be less harsh but they wear out quicker.
If your car sits level install a set of standard shocks you will notice the difference. 

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 12:25PM
Total posts: 19
Last post: Apr 15, 2017
Member since:Jul 19, 2016
I really don't know TBH. Any way to tell without removal?

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 10:55AM
Total posts: 7004
Last post: Apr 27, 2017
Member since:Aug 14, 2002
CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derramax
It has hi lows on it. I mainly drive it around town and on the backroads in a spirited fashion. I just don't really care for bouncing out of my seat on certin bumps.
But what spring is on the end of the hi-lo? If it is a Mini rubber cone it could be old and tired. I the attached picture, the cone on the left is one of my old front ones and the cone in the middle is a stock new cone. On the left one, you can see the centre is pressed in, eliminating just about all the springiness. It once looked like the middle one. People use Hi-Los to compensate for worn out cone springs.

.

"Hang on a minute lads....I've got a great idea."

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 10:51AM
Total posts: 1177
Last post: Apr 27, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2013
+1 minis always have had a harsh ride compared to other cars of the era and certainly modern cars, that's why they tried hydroelastic! Tire pressure will make a big difference in ride keep them low for comfort, everybody compares the mini handling to a gokart and it's true if you've ever driven a competition kart the rides about the same!

Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch

 Posted: Jan 3, 2017 09:41AM
Total posts: 9283
Last post: Apr 27, 2017
Member since:Mar 24, 1999
GB
I hate to break it to you, but the Mini IS old school...

Swapping between A008s and Falkens, it is noticeable how the ride changes.  The Falkens are much more compliant and give a softer ride for motorway cruising, but are basically ditch-finders when you get to a corner and woefully inadequate in the wet.

Metric is for people who can't do fractions...

Found 46 Messages

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