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 Posted: Mar 10, 2017 03:44PM
Total posts: 7009
Last post: May 20, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Nice install Rosebud. Just a heads up some of the bellow type seal protectors in the past have been made too thick…
Thanks for the heads-up, Maisal. As a matter of fact, 2nd & 4th do feel somewhat different. I wouldn't describe it as squishy exactly, more like "cushioned." The billow in 2nd & 4th is compressed, but not completely—there's still  an inch or so of room left before for compression, so I think I'm good. But I'll keep an eye it. Thanks again! 
Are you sure it looks very compressed from what i can see in the picture but it may be the angle. The issue is it puts stress and undue wear on the gearbox components and does not take long to create a jumping out of gear issue, very expensive for the sake of a 99c bellow. If it is preventing you fully engaging the gears you do not have to cut it all off just enough so there is some clearance, or you could discard the bellows Mini's have run for years without them. Good luck.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Mar 10, 2017 02:38PM
Total posts: 9323
Last post: May 26, 2017
Member since:Mar 24, 1999
GB
You may find that a previously untroublesome gearbox will jump out of gear on the overrun with one of the too-thick bellows.
I refreshed the 'box in Betty some years ago, and on day three of jumping out of gear cut the bellows off - never had another problem !

Metric is for people who can't do fractions...

 Posted: Mar 10, 2017 01:01PM
Total posts: 721
Last post: May 14, 2017
Member since:Jul 15, 2008
US
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
Nice install Rosebud. Just a heads up some of the bellow type seal protectors in the past have been made too thick…
Thanks for the heads-up, Maisal. As a matter of fact, 2nd & 4th do feel somewhat different. I wouldn't describe it as squishy exactly, more like "cushioned." The billow in 2nd & 4th is compressed, but not completely—there's still  an inch or so of room left before for compression, so I think I'm good. But I'll keep an eye it. Thanks again! 

 Michael, Santa Barbara, CA

. . . the sled, not the flower

 Posted: Mar 8, 2017 07:23AM
Total posts: 7009
Last post: May 20, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
Nice install Rosebud. Just a heads up some of the bellow type seal protectors in the past have been made too thick if you have issues with 2nd, 4th and reverse it may be you have a bad one. Basically the bellows do not compress enough and hold the shifter back from fully engaging the gear. You can tell by putting the car in one of those gears and if it feels "squishy" and not a precise thunk like the other gears you have bellows that are too thick. It sounds simple and not a big issue but it will put wear and tear on the gearbox and then it starts wearing and jumping out of gear on you.
Not trying to scare you but just thought i would let you know as yours look quite compressed in the picture.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Mar 7, 2017 09:15PM
Total posts: 721
Last post: May 14, 2017
Member since:Jul 15, 2008
US
Image Gallery
All buttoned up! Thanks for your help guys. I can't believe there's not a snap-ring or something holding the bushing and seal in place. Seems likely they'll slide out again. We'll see…

 Michael, Santa Barbara, CA

. . . the sled, not the flower

 Posted: Mar 6, 2017 09:17AM
Total posts: 7009
Last post: May 20, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
The top pic is for the differential cover to support the rod change bar you don't need that. The second pic is the correct part but you could also just use the seal kit MSSK050 which has the bushing seal and rubber boot to stop the dirt and dust destroying the sea.
To remove the current bushing try putting the car in 4th gear then clamp a pair of vise grips around the bushing then slowly and easily shift into 3rd and see if the bushing has pulled out of the housing.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Mar 6, 2017 09:03AM
Total posts: 3597
Last post: May 21, 2017
Member since:Jun 23, 2000
US
This kit has the metal bush/support with an o-ring. Perhaps at one time they made them in plastic or nylon.
I believe people have resorted to drilling a very small hole and using a self-tapping screw to use as an aid to removal.
Terry

 Posted: Mar 5, 2017 08:54PM
 Edited:  Mar 5, 2017 09:04PM
Total posts: 721
Last post: May 14, 2017
Member since:Jul 15, 2008
US
Image Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
I would remove the yellow bushing if only to see if there is a seal behind it that someone failed to remove. There is a reason that bushing has pushed the seal out and you need to investigate it as putting a new seal back in and pushing the bushing back in place without inspecting is a waste of time as you will be back in the same position leaking oil very quickly.
Yeah,  that's pretty much what I thought too. I'm afraid it's going to be a chore getting the bushing out. I did some tugging on it with a pick and it wasn't budging. Any ideas? If I bugger it up I'll need to replace it.  

Our host has two items called Rod Change Bushings; 2A3502 & 13H7286. Neither of them look like my yellow thing. I'll call MM in the morning and see what they have to say. Thanks for your help!

 Michael, Santa Barbara, CA

. . . the sled, not the flower

 Posted: Mar 5, 2017 06:31PM
Total posts: 7009
Last post: May 20, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
I would remove the yellow bushing if only to see if there is a seal behind it that someone failed to remove. There is a reason that bushing has pushed the seal out and you need to investigate it as putting a new seal back in and pushing the bushing back in place without inspecting is a waste of time as you will be back in the same position leaking oil very quickly.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Mar 5, 2017 04:04PM
Total posts: 721
Last post: May 14, 2017
Member since:Jul 15, 2008
US
 
Originally Posted by Cheleker
The seals are made to seal not to act as supports for the shaft running through them, that' why the kits have the support ring in them. At some later time the cases were changed to have support for the shaft closer to the hole. The kit's support ring and a new seal won't fit and only the seal is needed.
So this is what I have once I removed the black rubber seal. Does this yellow thing indicate I have a later style case with additional shaft support? Is this yellow thing the support bushing that you speak of? If so, how shall I proceed? Should I tap the yellow bushing back into the case and follow it with a new black rubber seal? If no, what then?

 Michael, Santa Barbara, CA

. . . the sled, not the flower

 Posted: Feb 27, 2017 06:00PM
Total posts: 7009
Last post: May 20, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheleker
If I had a dollar for all the times i've dug out two leaking seals, I could retire. Wait a minute...

The seals are made to seal not to act as supports for the shaft running through them, that' why the kits have the support ring in them. At some later time the cases were changed to have support for the shaft closer to the hole. The kit's support ring and a new seal won't fit and only the seal is needed.

I lightly chamfer the end of the roll pin that is going to go in first, and like malsal I use a little safety wire; especially if I'm reusing the pin.
That maybe why the current seal has moved out of its correct location.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Feb 27, 2017 10:36AM
 Edited:  Feb 27, 2017 10:45AM
Total posts: 9916
Last post: May 24, 2017
Member since:Dec 3, 2002
US
If I had a dollar for all the times i've dug out two leaking seals, I could retire. Wait a minute...

The seals are made to seal not to act as supports for the shaft running through them, that' why the kits have the support ring in them. At some later time the cases were changed to have support for the shaft closer to the hole. The kit's support ring and a new seal won't fit and only the seal is needed.

I lightly chamfer the end of the roll pin that is going to go in first, and like malsal I use a little safety wire; especially if I'm reusing the pin.

 Posted: Feb 27, 2017 09:15AM
Total posts: 7009
Last post: May 20, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
Yes correct. In your case if you put it in 1st or 3rd gear it should just come right out as it is already half way there. You need to find out why the piece behind the seal came loose and moved along the shaft pushing out the seal.

TK's idea won't work because of the issues above you will more than likely have the same issue and as they say if it is worth doing do it right.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Feb 27, 2017 08:43AM
 Edited:  Feb 27, 2017 08:44AM
Total posts: 721
Last post: May 14, 2017
Member since:Jul 15, 2008
US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud
Quote:
… So, whatever I find in there, it should all come out with a pick without any further disassembly. Is that correct?
I'm going to have a go at it today. Before I get to involved, the old seals come out with a pick and the new ones go back in without any further disassembly. Correct?

 Michael, Santa Barbara, CA

. . . the sled, not the flower

 Posted: Feb 26, 2017 08:42PM
TK
Total posts: 1043
Last post: May 13, 2017
Member since:May 13, 2002
push the existing seal in further and put a new seal in behind it. Job done.

 Posted: Feb 26, 2017 04:57PM
Total posts: 7009
Last post: May 20, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
Yes you need it put into the reverse gate area but not fully engaged into reverse is what Mur is saying that way you can get to the roll pin to punch it out.
As Mur pointed out your seal and bushing are not in place (2nd picture) and have in fact moved along the shaft and are hanging out of the gearbox which is why you have the leak.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Feb 26, 2017 11:47AM
 Edited:  Feb 26, 2017 11:56AM
Total posts: 721
Last post: May 14, 2017
Member since:Jul 15, 2008
US
Quote:
Originally Posted by mur
Dismantle the rod change coupler, using the correct size drift and locating the shifter to the right of the 3rd/4th gate, however you do not need to go back into reverse, just stay above it…
Mur: Not sure I understand. Are you saying I should move the shift lever inside the car to the right (between 3rd and 4th) before uncoupling the rod, removing the existing seal(s) (and perhaps a nylon bushing) and installing the new stuff?

The transmission was rebuilt by a reputable Mini performance shop and I'm sure they did it right. I just don't know if they installed the anti-leak kit or simply replaced the factory seal. Haynes says the single factory seal often leaks early on, which is what I'm experiencing, so I'm definitely installing the complete anti-leak kit. So, whatever I find in there, it should all come out with a pick without any further disassembly. Is that correct?

 Michael, Santa Barbara, CA

. . . the sled, not the flower

 Posted: Feb 26, 2017 10:09AM
Total posts: 5797
Last post: May 24, 2017
Member since:Mar 9, 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by mur

Now decide if you need another spacer and seal, or if neatly reinstalling the items you have will suffice. As you can see, the spacer bound to the shaft and was pulled out, along with the seal, when you shifted the car into first or third.
Good eye, Mur!

 Posted: Feb 26, 2017 10:08AM
Total posts: 7009
Last post: May 20, 2017
Member since:Feb 7, 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud
Quote:
Originally Posted by malsal
The problem is your floor is too clean ! Where are you parking that car in the kitchen LOL.
Seriously the part you need is MSSK050 less than ten bucks from our host.
Yeah, my wife says I wipe my feet when I walk from the kitchen into the garage, rather than the other way around. My  son-in-law accuses me of washing my hands before I work on my motor.

Thanks for finding that anti-oil leak kit.  I always seem to have trouble searching for parts by name on our host's website. It either returns a bunch of unrelated stuff or nothing at all. You don't happen to know the correct size of the roll pin I'll need do you?
The part number for the roll pin is RPS1418, not sure on the size maybe 3/16". When you remove the seal make sure there is not another one behind it from a PO, sometimes PO's take the easy way out and install a new one on top of the old one. I like to use some safety wire on the roll pin so if it becomes loose it will not fall out.

If in doubt, flat out . Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

 Posted: Feb 25, 2017 10:36PM
mur
Total posts: 5588
Last post: May 23, 2017
Member since:Nov 12, 1999
Dismantle the rod change coupler, using the correct size drift and locating the shifter to the right of the 3rd/4th gate, however you do not need to go back into reverse, just stay above it. Remove and clean the spacer and seal that you already have. Carefully clean the shaft going into the transmission and the area around it where the seal and spacer are situated. 

Now decide if you need another spacer and seal, or if neatly reinstalling the items you have will suffice. As you can see, the spacer bound to the shaft and was pulled out, along with the seal, when you shifted the car into first or third.

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