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 Posted: Apr 15, 2017 04:40PM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
The brakes are done.  

In the end I installed new rotors, re-machined drums, new shoes and new semi-metallic pads.  The semi-metallic pads were a compromise between ceramics and organics.  

The pedal effort is decreased and the car stops better.  I am ready to put the car on the market.

Doug L.
 Posted: Apr 5, 2017 07:19AM
 Edited:  Apr 6, 2017 06:49AM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_lankford
 
I thought all the SS braid did was prevent the hose from ballooning out and rupturing? How could it stop the opposite of caving in?  

The tubing inside ss brake hoses is typically made from Teflon.  Teflon is not affected by brake fluid so it will not swell closed like old rubber hoses. 

My saga continues.  I sandblasted the drums at work this morning and found cracks around one hole on one drum.  Time to buy more parts if I don't have a spare in my collection!

EDIT-4/6/17:  I found two more Spitfire drums in my stash of parts.  They cleaned up but are at the wear limit.  I guess I am going to have to learn how to carry out DIY brake shoe arcing so the new parts mate well with the drums.

Doug L.
 Posted: Apr 5, 2017 04:45AM
Total posts: 1817
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Aug 29, 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by dklawson
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimans
 
Change those hoses!! The shoes pitting and falling apart are a sign of excessive heat usually caused by a restricted hose............
Thanks for the suggestion.  However, these are not old rubber hoses, they are Goodridge ss braided hoses.  They don't tend to collapse on their own and the lines have never been compressed or kinked.  


I thought all the SS braid did was prevent the hose from ballooning out and rupturing? How could it stop the opposite of caving in?

I was happy with EBC green (until my recent presumptive warped rotor issue that is not the pads fault)

 Posted: Apr 5, 2017 04:32AM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimans
 
Change those hoses!! The shoes pitting and falling apart are a sign of excessive heat usually caused by a restricted hose............
Thanks for the suggestion.  However, these are not old rubber hoses, they are Goodridge ss braided hoses.  They don't tend to collapse on their own and the lines have never been compressed or kinked.  

I anticipate when the new rotors, pads, and shoes arrive the car's stopping power will return.

Doug L.
 Posted: Apr 5, 2017 01:36AM
Total posts: 1337
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Oct 18, 2011
I like green stuff... on my second set.  They do need to be cooked properly (run in) when new.... 10 hard stops from say 50 mph with brief (time to accelerate slowly back to 50) rests in between.

I find they work "OK" when cool but improve with heat....

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Apr 4, 2017 05:00PM
Total posts: 1256
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dklawson
It was the pads... and more, a lot more.

I left work early so I could take the brakes apart before the sun went down.

The rotors look horrible. They are pitted, grooved, wavy, with what looks like a glassy, rust colored surface. The pads were almost a the wear limit. The drums themselves look OK. However, the shoes... one pair had what looked like acne scars... places where material had been pulled out. However, the drums did not have any irregular interior features to explain it.

So... now I get to order a bunch of brake parts. It's no big deal, just more work before I list the car for sale. I will feel better knowing the next owner can stop safely.

I have to make up my mind on brake materials/brands soon.  I will post updates once I have the car back on all four. 

Doug L.
Change those hoses!! The shoes pitting and falling apart are a sign of excessive heat usually caused by a restricted hose............

Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch

 Posted: Apr 4, 2017 04:56PM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
It was the pads... and more, a lot more.

I left work early so I could take the brakes apart before the sun went down.

The rotors look horrible. They are pitted, grooved, wavy, with what looks like a glassy, rust colored surface. The pads were almost a the wear limit. The drums themselves look OK. However, the shoes... one pair had what looked like acne scars... places where material had been pulled out. However, the drums did not have any irregular interior features to explain it.

So... now I get to order a bunch of brake parts. It's no big deal, just more work before I list the car for sale. I will feel better knowing the next owner can stop safely.

I have to make up my mind on brake materials/brands soon.  I will post updates once I have the car back on all four. 

Doug L.

Doug L.
 Posted: Apr 4, 2017 11:45AM
Total posts: 1256
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Oct 8, 2013
Sounds like a brake problem to me not really a "Pad" issue? Spitfire brakes are usually quite adequate for the job with no problem locking the wheels. I would start checking the system itself for incorrect line fitment or bad flex hose and the master cylinder itself fo problems...................

Mini's are like buses they come along in a bunch

 Posted: Apr 4, 2017 10:26AM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
Thanks for the additional comments.  As I mentioned in my last post, I have not heard enough good recommendations to go with the Green Stuff pads.  I'm not saying they are bad, just that they might not be best for this application.

The wheels on this car are aluminum Panasports (like a 13" Minilight).  The tires are the closest to the old stock size as you can currently buy.  If anything, mass would be down from the stock steel wheels.

If you felt the way the car is behaving, it's not that you cannot stop, it's that you have to really, really put your foot down to make a sudden stop.  It's like the pads are sliding along glass.  Goodness knows what they would feel like in the wet.

Doug L.
 Posted: Apr 4, 2017 09:15AM
Total posts: 1772
Last post: Jun 14, 2017
Member since:Feb 24, 2002
US
I know there are a lot of EBC Green Stuff haters out there but they have served me well for several years on the Mini. They seem to be a good combination of street and performance. Just like the ads say!

Have you increased the size and of the tires? Is it possible the tires (rotating mass sort of thing) are overpowering the brakes?

 Posted: Apr 4, 2017 07:07AM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
These are Spitfire brakes, disk front, drum rear.  They are not boosted.  This is a dual line system with the stock 2-step master cylinder (rears fed on one circuit, fronts on the other).  There is no differential/proportioning valve.  The pedal has always been heavy but now that the car is home I find it much harder to stop than I remember.

The problem with most performance pads are they are aimed at stopping after aggressive driving and need to be hot. That's fine on a race or track car but not necessarily what I want for the infrequent stops one has with a street car.

I have not read a lot of reviews that make me want to go with the Green Stuff pads.  Mintex have been mentioned favorably but generally their compounds seem to be more towards racing and track cars.  Ceramic pads are among those I am considering.  Thanks for offering your comments and suggestions.

Doug L.
 Posted: Apr 4, 2017 05:53AM
Total posts: 1272
Last post: Jun 25, 2017
Member since:Apr 30, 2009
US
Maybe posting the vehicle type could lead to ideas for 'normal" hard brake conditons or ideas try this or that to get a better pedal.

Is this a Boosted Setup ?  Knowing if the booster + or one way valves are operating correctly (if present?)



 For 'generic- pads/ off the shelf from a parts store I ALWAYS go with Advance auto Platnium Professional Ceramic Pads..(the best ones they offer)   good street performance= never had noise upon replacement....Should have a good ' GRIP for your stoppig needs.

Depending on the application == EBC or mintex brand make verity of pads... perhaps a more performance pad would help (more agressive like a greenstuff... but greenstuff doesn't REALLY bite until they're Hot!


Good luck

 Posted: Apr 4, 2017 04:19AM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
This post is a non Mini specific question.  I am looking for general feedback on brake pads based on personal experiences.

I have a non-Mini British car where I have a very firm brake pedal but the car doesn't want to stop.  All the hydraulics are new or rebuilt, shoes are adjusted.  This is not an entirely new situation.  The car has never had easily operated or light-touch brakes.  Now that the car is back home with me after years at college I find I really have to work my leg to even think about locking up the wheels.

I plan on pulling the rotors and either sanding them to break the glaze or replacing them.  I would like to fit new pads to complete the job.  There are many brands and compounds out there (organic, semi-metallic, metallic, ceramic, ceramic hybrids, Kevlar, etc.)  I am looking for recommendations for a "grippy" material for a street car.  I am not concerned about cosmetic things like brake dust.  Racing pads are not under consideration.   

Could I please have your comments on what pads you like and if you feel one material or brand is more grippy than another?  

Thanks !

Doug L.