Starter Relay
Orig. Posting Date | User Name | Edit Date |
Apr 12, 2017 04:55PM | Mini41 | |
Apr 12, 2017 02:29PM | dklawson | |
Apr 12, 2017 12:17PM | Mini41 | Edited: Apr 12, 2017 12:20PM |
Apr 12, 2017 08:09AM | mur | |
Apr 12, 2017 07:18AM | Mini41 | |
Apr 12, 2017 06:40AM | Mini41 | |
Apr 12, 2017 05:58AM | dklawson | |
Apr 12, 2017 05:42AM | mur | |
Apr 12, 2017 03:34AM | Mini41 | |
Apr 11, 2017 01:29PM | swindrum | |
Apr 11, 2017 11:30AM | dklawson | |
Apr 11, 2017 10:39AM | mur | |
Apr 11, 2017 10:23AM | swindrum | |
Apr 11, 2017 09:52AM | Mini41 |
Total posts: 212
Last post: Feb 17, 2023 Member since:Nov 9, 2013
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
Jack
Total posts: 9241
Last post: Aug 17, 2023 Member since:Jun 5, 2000
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
Total posts: 212
Last post: Feb 17, 2023 Member since:Nov 9, 2013
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
If you don't have 12V on white/red under that condition the problem is in the ignition switch, the white/red wire, or how you have connected the wire to the switch (wrong terminal?).
and:
If the white/red wire does not turn on when you turn the switch to start, the relay won't be triggered and the starter won't be triggered.
They were right. I don't know why, but the wire was compromised somewhere along the line between the ignition switch and the starter relay. When I jumped the white/red wire from the ignition switch (by passing the white/red in the harness) directly to the white/red wire into the starter relay, everything worked - the solenoid turned the starter over as it was supposed to.
I still don't know why this occurred by as they say - s--- happens.
All I know is I'm back in shape and ready to run my new CooperTune engine for the first time.
Man, what a relief.
Thanks to all who tried to help. I really appreciate it.
Jack
Total posts: 5840
Last post: Nov 1, 2019 Member since:Nov 12, 1999
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
Total posts: 212
Last post: Feb 17, 2023 Member since:Nov 9, 2013
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
Also ran a jumper from the black ground wire leading into the starter relay to a good ground source. No change.
Checked the white/red wire at the same time. No voltage.
I guess I'm gonna have to build oil pressure, fill the carb bowl with gas and start the motor for the first time with the remote starter switch.
I sure wish a light bulb would go off in someone's head with an idea that would fix this.
Jack
Total posts: 212
Last post: Feb 17, 2023 Member since:Nov 9, 2013
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
As I mentioned:
With the relay plunged in I have no power on the white/red wire from the ignition switch (both wire and switch are new) and no power going out on the brown/red wire to the solenoid with the key on or off.
Also:
I have a new ignition switch and a new wire harness (including connections from the new ignition switch to the new fuse box
And:
The relay connections are:
Pin 30 - live feed, brown wire
Pin 87 - brown/red wire feed to the large spade on the solenoid
Pin 85 - black ground wire
Pin 86 - white/red wire from ignition.
Total posts: 9241
Last post: Aug 17, 2023 Member since:Jun 5, 2000
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
Total posts: 5840
Last post: Nov 1, 2019 Member since:Nov 12, 1999
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
Total posts: 212
Last post: Feb 17, 2023 Member since:Nov 9, 2013
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
I have a new battery and new battery ground and engine ground cables attached to bare metal.
The solenoid works and the starter turns when a remoter starter switch is attached directly to the battery connection and the large spade (where the brown/red wire attaches) on the solenoid and triggered with the key on.
The one thing I haven't done is mess with the cluster of ground wires from the new harness. I will attach jumpers to each one and insure they are attached to bare metal and see if that's the problem.
I appreciate the suggestions and welcome some more if anyone has any idea.
Jack
Total posts: 1456
Last post: Jan 31, 2022 Member since:Sep 8, 2003
|
Cars in Garage: 1
Photos: 186 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
This is a pre engaged starter with the solenoid on the starter. These solenoids will draw so much current that you need a relay to trigger the solenoid to reliably operate the starter. There is no solenoid mounted on the inner fender.
The white/red triggers the relay and the relay triggers the solenoid. Bench test everything. A relay has source power, and then the load side. It requires a ground, and it requires a trigger. I would start with the grounds: battery to body, main harness to body, and engine to body.
After confirming the ground sources, re confirm the +12V as the relay source, and also the ignition trigger.
This is not complex, you can sort this out.
Sean Windrum
1996 MGF VVC
1970 1275 GT Racer
66 Austin Countryman
63 997 Cooper (Under Construction)
63 MG 1100
Total posts: 9241
Last post: Aug 17, 2023 Member since:Jun 5, 2000
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
The wiring you describe for the relay sounds correct. The brown wire on the relay should be providing unswitched, unfused power to the relay. The brown/red will carry that power to the starter solenoid when the relay closes. The white/red wire is the trigger for the relay. When you turn the key to the start position, the white/red wire goes to battery voltage, and energizes the relay windings as the current continues on to ground via the black wire.
As Sean and Mur suggested, you need a multimeter or test light to probe for voltage. Place one meter probe on the brown relay wire and the other probe on ground. You should find battery voltage regardless of the ignition key position. If you don't measure voltage, you have a problem with the brown wire somewhere.
Make sure the black wire for the starter relay has a good ground connection. Move your meter so one probe is on the white/red wire terminal and the other is on ground. Have an assistant turn the key to the start position. You should measure battery voltage on the white/red wire. If you don't, there is something wrong with the white/red wire of its connection back at the ignition switch.
If you find battery voltage on the brown and white/red wires at the correct time (based on key position) but the starter won't energize then the problem is with the relay ground (black) wire, the brown/red wire to the starter solenoid, or the starter itself. As stated above, if the relay is being pulled in you should hear a click from it followed immediately by a much louder clunk (or spin) from the starter motor.
Total posts: 5840
Last post: Nov 1, 2019 Member since:Nov 12, 1999
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
This is a pre engaged starter with the solenoid on the starter. These solenoids will draw so much current that you need a relay to trigger the solenoid to reliably operate the starter. There is no solenoid mounted on the inner fender.
The white/red triggers the relay and the relay triggers the solenoid. Bench test everything. A relay has source power, and then the load side. It requires a ground, and it requires a trigger. I would start with the grounds: battery to body, main harness to body, and engine to body.
After confirming the ground sources, re confirm the +12V as the relay source, and also the ignition trigger.
This is not complex, you can sort this out.
Total posts: 1456
Last post: Jan 31, 2022 Member since:Sep 8, 2003
|
Cars in Garage: 1
Photos: 186 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
|
That sounds interesting... I am working from memory so bear with me.
The solenoid should have a large battery cable coming in from the battery, and a second large cable heading to the starter. The large cable coming from the battery, when connected, should supply the large brown wire with power. The red and white wire is the trigger wire from the ignition switch. When the key is turned to the start position, the red and white wire becomes live, which initiates the solenoid, which energizes the second large cable to the starter, causing it to crank.
If you have a test light, disconnect the white/red wire and hook up the test light, turn the key to the start position, the lamp should light.
You should hear the solenoid click when you turn the key as well.
Could it be possible the big cables are hooked up the wrong way around?
Sean Windrum
1996 MGF VVC
1970 1275 GT Racer
66 Austin Countryman
63 997 Cooper (Under Construction)
63 MG 1100
Total posts: 212
Last post: Feb 17, 2023 Member since:Nov 9, 2013
|
Cars in Garage: 0
Photos: 0 WorkBench Posts: 0 |
As I've shown in the past, on this and the UK forum, my ability to solve electrical problems is close to non-existent. So I'm sure this latest dilemma I'm facing with my '84 saloon will come as no surprise to many.
What I have now is:
a new ignition switch
a new wire harness (including connections from the new ignition switch to the new fuse box
new fuses
correct wires on correct lug on the fuse box
a new starter relay (replaced twice just to make sure the first one wasn't bad)
a new pre-engaged starter with solenoid
a new alternator
a new distributor
a new coil (with a new white wire from P1 on the fuse box)
What I don't have is power to the large spade on the solenoid to turn over the starter.
The relay connections are:
Pin 30 - live feed, brown wire
Pin 87 - brown/red wire feed to the large spade on the solenoid
Pin 85 - black ground wire
Pin 86 - white/red wire from ignition.
I can jump from the large brown wire on Pin 30 to the large spade on the solenoid and the starter will turn over.
I can also turn the starter over with a remote starter switch by connecting directly to the battery lug and the large spade on the solenoid and pulling the switch trigger
I just can't get any power through that starter relay.
I'm bound to have caused they while installing the new harness. Everything else connected to it works fire. Lights, hazards and turn signals, panel lights, bright light indicator, feel gauge, etc. are all okay but as I understand things they are not inter-connect to the ignition circuit.
Help please. I'm ready to start the motor for the first time after a rebuild and can do it with a remote starter but I want to solve this problem first.
Jack