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 Posted: Apr 24, 2017 04:15AM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
I second Mur's comments.  While your car would not have had headlight relays when new, it also wouldn't have had driving lights.

If you buy the appropriate bullet connectors, all the conversions and additions discussed above can be made without cutting wires (visit Britishwiring.com).  Britishwiring will also have the correct color coded wires for you to make these changes and additions.  

Likewise, the tech section of this board includes information on how to modify a broken generator control box to serve as a junction box when converting to an alternator.  Keep your original control box and its matching generator so a future owner can convert back to the generator if they want to.

If you make the changes and additions using the correct color coded wires and bullet connectors your car will remain largely original with all the updates being completely reversible.

Doug L.
 Posted: Apr 22, 2017 09:04PM
mur
Total posts: 5616
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Nov 12, 1999
Your car would not have come with relays for the headlamps.

Your car would benefit from fitting them. Relays would allow you to use a quality modern headlamp with a halogen bulb and get the most from them while reducing the stress on the wiring harness and the switches.

Your car would also benefit from fitting an alternator in place of the generator. If the car is still positive earth, that would need swapping over as well.

These simple changes can easily be reversed should you desire to.

 Posted: Apr 22, 2017 01:33PM
Total posts: 75
Last post: Apr 29, 2017
Member since:Jun 25, 2013
Hello and thank you one and all for the info.  All good.

My mini is original.  I don't believe it originally had relays for the lights.  I don't think there is much else that would need a relay.  I will wire my driving lights as you stated; with the ground going thru the switch.  Pretty straight forward.

Also Shrimps, thank you for the wiring schematic link.  Just what the doctor ordered, almost.  I didn't see a MKI, 1967 Austin Cooper S schematic so I sent an email.  Hopefully they have one specifically for the MKI.

Regards

Tim 

 Posted: Apr 21, 2017 12:15PM
mur
Total posts: 5616
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Nov 12, 1999
I cannot imagine that any jurisdiction would have a concern with driving lights that only come on with high beams and only via a separate switch. That is certainly how I would wire them. Denmark, obviously make JEG jump through hoops but one might suppose that that is their penance for sometimes beating Canada on those ridiculous quality of life surveys.

Furthermore, when fitting a relay for such a system, the switch inside the car need only carry ground out to the relay. Big current right off of the solenoid brings heavy 12V to the relay and then the load side goes to the lights. The high beams wiring, that of course now only triggers the high beams relay that I am sure you already have, also triggers the driving lamps' relay. So, all you need is a ground, which you can supply via a switch.

This makes for a spectacularly easy installation. Note that tapping into the high beams wiring and then running +12V to the switch and then out to the relay is much harder, and you end up with a lone wire outside the harness that could experience chafing and short out and fail. The worst that could happen is that this ground wire could be compromised and the lights would come on.

 Posted: Apr 20, 2017 02:48PM
Total posts: 321
Last post: Apr 20, 2017
Member since:Sep 28, 2010
US
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65AMCS
Or maybe a better question is: Has anyone colorized and enlarged the mini electrical schematic?  

Tim
Prospero's Garage has nice enlarged color Mini wiring diagram's.

http://colorwiringdiagrams.com/t/mini---vintage


 Posted: Apr 20, 2017 02:02PM
 Edited:  Apr 20, 2017 02:07PM
jeg
Total posts: 7059
Last post: Apr 20, 2017
Member since:Apr 25, 2000
My 'drawings' are simply Word documents.  I haven't access to anything better.


I used professional-grade environmentally sealed APEM 3500 series switches (used by Prodrive, Williams and McLaren, so they're good 'nuf for my mini) and APEM Q-series 8mm dashboard panel LEDs (with chrome recessed bezel) so that they'd match the bezels of the Smiths gauges.  I prefer mechanical gauges, so I've installed GT40-style '½V' bezel full-scale gauges instead of the usual round or full 'V' bezel mini gauges.

APEM:  http://www.apem.com 

The switches:  holden.co.uk_Professional 

Holden also carries the standard Lucas switches and accessories.


The dashboard indicator LED's I installed have these part numbers, I found them at DigiKey:

Green:  Q8R1CXXG12E
Red:  Q8R1CXXR12E
Blue:  Q8R1CXXB12E  (must use resistor, otherwise it'll be too bright - it's available at Holden.co.uk - p/n 010.585_Resistor for Blue LED)
Yellow:  Q8R1CXXY12E


It's a matter of preference what you'll install in your mini, but I like what I've installed in mine.

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Apr 20, 2017 07:41AM
Total posts: 87
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Jul 24, 2014
The switch is Lucas # 65SA/108SA should not cost more than $20.00 delivered. The bracket may be more difficult to find, see pic on right, but you could make one, short the rolled edges, that would look good. The other bracket with the light is the same with 2 holes, and wider, I think it was originally for rear defog. Cheers.

 Posted: Apr 19, 2017 10:22PM
 Edited:  Apr 19, 2017 10:24PM
Total posts: 287
Last post: Jun 7, 2017
Member since:Nov 1, 2012
Washington State law is pretty simple:

RCW 46.37.180 Spot lamps and auxiliary lamps. (1) Spot lamps. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two spot lamps and every lighted spot lamp shall be so aimed and used that no part of the high intensity portion of the beam will strike the windshield, or any windows, mirror, or occupant of another vehicle in use. (2) Fog lamps. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two fog lamps mounted on the front at a height of not less than twelve inches nor more than thirty inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands and so aimed that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the high intensity portion of the light to the left of the center of the vehicle shall at a distance of twenty-five feet ahead project higher than a level of four inches below the level of the center of the lamp from which it comes. Lighted fog lamps meeting the above requirements may be used with lower head lamp beams as specified in RCW 46.37.220. (3) Auxiliary passing lamps. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two auxiliary passing lamps mounted on the front at a height not less than twenty-four inches nor more than forty-two inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands. The provisions of RCW 46.37.220 shall apply to any combinations of head lamps and auxiliary passing lamps. (4) Auxiliary driving lamps. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two auxiliary driving lamps mounted on the front at a height not less than sixteen inches nor more than forty-two inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands. The provisions of RCW 46.37.220 shall apply to any combination of head lamps and auxiliary driving lamps.

Pretty simple for a mini that sits low.

 Posted: Apr 19, 2017 06:24PM
Total posts: 75
Last post: Apr 29, 2017
Member since:Jun 25, 2013
@1963SV2  Thanks for the note.  Good info.

@Jeg  Great looking Mini.  I can only imagine the motor is as nice and also has the power to match.  As for the light info; wow!  Just what I was looking for, thinking someone on this forum did have this info.  What a great forum.  Thank you for the comments and schematics.  

On a side note; what did you use to generate the schematic?  Or maybe a better question is: Has anyone colorized and enlarged the mini electrical schematic?  
I also have a Lotus Europa and many years ago a few of the Lotus forum members redrew enlarged to 24" x 36" and colorized the Lotus schematic.  It is also laminated.  It is a very valuable tool for working on the Lotus.  If someone has such a dwg I would be very interested in getting a copy.  Or maybe I need to make one; )  http://www.lotus-europa.com/manuals/index.htm#electrical


@onetim  "There is a nice Lucas switch bracket that mounts under the dash, there is also one that has a indicator light, and switch."  I will need to find this item.  You wouldn't happen to have a PN, seller, any more info?

Thanks much.

Tim

 Posted: Apr 19, 2017 02:02PM
jeg
Total posts: 7059
Last post: Apr 20, 2017
Member since:Apr 25, 2000
I've installed front fog lights, driving lights, rear fog light, 3rd brake light and reverse lamp to my mini.  And, because I do a lot of coastal fishing, I use the fog lamps when it's foggy and the driving lamps when it's really, really dark outside.

The front fog lights are operated via a switch, incorporate a dashboard LED lamp to remind me that they're on (if I forget to shut them off) and can only be operated with the low-beam headlights.  As high-beams are ineffective in the fog, there's no reason to be able to activate the fog lights.

The front driving lights are operated via a switch, incorporate a dashboard LED lamp to remind me that they're on (if I forget to shut them off) and can only be operated with the high-beam headlights.  If I switch from high-beams to low-beams, the driving lights are killed, leaving only the low-beams.

The rear fog lamp can be operated when any lights are on, even the parking lights, and incorporate a dashboard LED lamp to remind me that they're on.

The high-beam, low-beam, front fog and driving lights each have relays: 4 relays for 4 different lighting systems.

The reverse lamp and 3rd brake light are pretty straight forward.

My installation complies with Danish and EU regulations.

The peasants are revolting...          

"Gone with the Wind" - a brief yet moving vignette concerning lactose intolerance

 Posted: Apr 18, 2017 06:16PM
Total posts: 1337
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Oct 18, 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65AMCS
Thank all for the input.  I agree a relay system for the lights would be best.

I think I will wire the driving lights up with the brights, brights on; driving lights on,  but in addition I will put a switch in so I can turn just the driving light off when the brights are on.  Not sure how I am going to do this but I'll figure it out.  I will need a switch and a place to mount it.  I will have to figure that out also.  I want something that looks like it belongs in a 1967 Mini.  I think I will have to get a little creative.

Thanks again.

Tim
Like Aerkuld said....  However IMHO there are 3 kinds of "auxiliary" lights; spot, driving and fogs.  Fogs have been explained.  Spots are just that, they have a plain lens and project a relatively thin beam straight ahead. They're the ones that first light up the moose (or smaller marsupial in my part of the world) standing in the middle of the road ahead.  Driving lights are more like conventional headlights and have a patterned lens that spreads the beam to light more of the road verges (so you can see the critters hiding by the side of the road waiting to pounce out in front of you).

The Sweeds obviously agree as the light set I bought recently came with one spot and one driving light.  When paired with Hella H4 headlight units this gives 400 watts of lighting on high beam.  Enough to make nightime driving much more comfortable (I don't live in town

Fitting is relatively simple.  I fitted 3 relays on a piece of alloy L beam which fits under the brake booster.  This makes the power leads pretty much as short of they can be.  I use the exisiting low beam wiring to trigger the low relay.  I cut the high beam leads and use one to drive the high beam relay and ran a wire back to switch under the dash then to the Aux relay.

That way you need the least amount of extra wire, the "normal" lighting circuits are intact - apart from the small detour through the relays - and the auxiliary lights can be switched on and off and will only come on when high beam is selected (both these being a legal requirement here).

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Apr 18, 2017 05:04PM
Total posts: 574
Last post: Jun 25, 2017
Member since:Sep 24, 2011
Regarding those bumper mounted lights that many cars come equipped with (usually the sporty models), and people drive around with on all of the time:  They are required by law to be really dim because morons turn them on all of the time, as "decoration".  This is why the rear fog light (super bright red), which is required in Germany, is illegal in this country (though many BMW Mini owners have fitted because, you know, they look cool).  Driving with that annoyingly bright light on in normal conditions is being very impolite to other drivers.  In Germany that rear fog light is only allowed to be on in dense fog and a very expensive ticket will be issued if left on during a clear day.

As Aerkuld pointed out, fog lights are meant to illuminate only the area very near the bumper (so that their light does not blind you, the driver, in dense fog).  Using them any other time is actually counter productive because too much "near distance" light tends to harm your night vision, and when at speed what is going on very close to your bumper isn't useful anyway.


x2 what everyone else has said:  use a relay and a dedicated power supply, and check your local laws to make sure whether they are OK to be on with your high beams or should be separately controlled.  

If your local laws allow it, it is most practical to simply tap into the high beam circuit to control the relay and have them come on each time they are used.


N

 Posted: Apr 18, 2017 04:05PM
Total posts: 87
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Jul 24, 2014
There is a nice Lucas switch bracket that mounts under the dash, there is also one that has a indicator light, and switch. Would look correct, possibly is correct. 

 Posted: Apr 18, 2017 01:59PM
Total posts: 75
Last post: Apr 29, 2017
Member since:Jun 25, 2013
Thank all for the input.  I agree a relay system for the lights would be best.

I think I will wire the driving lights up with the brights, brights on; driving lights on,  but in addition I will put a switch in so I can turn just the driving light off when the brights are on.  Not sure how I am going to do this but I'll figure it out.  I will need a switch and a place to mount it.  I will have to figure that out also.  I want something that looks like it belongs in a 1967 Mini.  I think I will have to get a little creative.

Thanks again.

Tim

 Posted: Apr 18, 2017 11:03AM
Total posts: 87
Last post: Jun 26, 2017
Member since:Jul 24, 2014
Rant 2


Who the hell decided it was OK to use back up lights for reasons other than backing up? Drives me crazy in parking lots.

 Posted: Apr 18, 2017 09:33AM
Total posts: 8
Last post: Jun 20, 2017
Member since:Dec 7, 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitz

I doubt it is legal to have the "driving lights" wired so they come on with the brights
Use a relay

Rant:
What the hell are driving lights anyway..... I realize they are typically the bumper mounted lights on most modern cars nowadays, but what good are they really other than "looks".  As soon as a vehicle equipped with them needs more light (hwy), flick on the brights and the "driving" lights go out anyway
My use of the term 'Driving Lights' is applied to long range lights, or spotlights, which should ONLY be used with the main beam headlights. They are very bright, often brighter than main beam headlights, and would dazzle other drivers if used with oncoming traffic. I can see that any auxiliary lights could be called driving lights though.

A lot of the bumper mounted lights you see on cars now are, I think, technically fog lights. They are designed to give a broad, low, flat, light pattern which would be unlikely to dazzle other drivers. Fog lights are only supposed to be used in low visibility conditions such as fog or falling snow. In these conditions, normal lights tend to reflect too much light off the fog/snow back at the driver, whereas the fog light beam tends to shine 'under' the fog/snow from the drivers perspective to give some short range visibility.

You're correct though - I feel most of these are on there for show value and have very little function.

Personally, my long range lights shine much further ahead than the main beams, and in a very concentrated beam. Useful for rapid progress on quiet, dark roads. My 'fog' lights are set up so that the passenger side (RH) light points slightly to the right to illuminate the side of the road and around right hand corners. The driver's side (LH) light points more straight ahead to illuminate the road immediately in front, and slightly to the left. Mine are actually able to switch LH or RH seperately if needed, but I wouldn't use either lights, or the main beam/long range lights in traffic.

 Posted: Apr 18, 2017 09:12AM
Total posts: 13178
Last post: Jun 16, 2017
Member since:Jan 22, 2003
CA
As above and above

I doubt it is legal to have the "driving lights" wired so they come on with the brights
Use a relay

Rant:
What the hell are driving lights anyway..... I realize they are typically the bumper mounted lights on most modern cars nowadays, but what good are they really other than "looks".  As soon as a vehicle equipped with them needs more light (hwy), flick on the brights and the "driving" lights go out anyway

 

"Everybody should own a MINI at some point, or you are incomplete as a human being" - James May

"WET COOPER", Partsguy1 (Terry Snell of Penticton BC ) - Could you send the money for the unpaid parts and court fees.
Ordered so by a Judge

 

 

 

 Posted: Apr 18, 2017 08:51AM
Total posts: 8
Last post: Jun 20, 2017
Member since:Dec 7, 2016
What Doug said ^

Definitely wire your additional lights through a relay. In fact, it even helps to wire your headlights through a relay as you have considerably less current going through the switch. The relay tends to have a much more efficient contact too, so your lights will be brighter. If you have the electrical ability to do so it's well worth it.

It also depends whether these are driving lights (long-range, spotlight type lights) or fog lights (giving a broad, flat beam).

My car has a relay for the low beam headlights (dipped beam), a relay for the high beam (brights), a relay for the long-range lights (with switched power to the relay coming from the high beam output of the foot switch), and a relay for the fog lights (with switched power to the relay coming from the 'lights on' feed to the foot switch). Basically, all any of my light switches do is switch a relay which is very low current. The relay itself switches the high current to the lights. My spot lights will ONLY come on with high beam (brights) which is really the only time you need them. The fog lights are able to be on with any lights.

 Posted: Apr 17, 2017 06:39PM
Total posts: 8435
Last post: Jun 27, 2017
Member since:Jun 5, 2000
US
You have asked several questions.  You will get a lot of advice here and it will not all be consistent.  I'll start.

Check your local laws concerning what circuit the lights need to be wired into.  You may be required to tie them into the high beam circuit or you may be allowed to wire them directly with a dedicated switch.

Buy a headlight relay kit.  Do not put the added current drain on any of the existing circuits and switches in your car.  The relay kit will come with basic wiring instructions.  If they are unclear we will walk you through what they are telling you.

The relay kit will come with some form of switch.  If you don't like the switch supplied with the kit, our host should have switches that match those in your car.  Almost any one of them could be wired to operate the headlight relay.

Doug L.
 Posted: Apr 17, 2017 06:21PM
Total posts: 75
Last post: Apr 29, 2017
Member since:Jun 25, 2013
Hello.

I have a 1967 Austin Cooper S that has two driving lights mounted on it.  They are currently not wired.  How should these two lights be wired?

* Wired with the "brights" foot switch so when you put the "brights" on the driving lights come on?  Is there a wiring schematic?
* Wired with a totally independent switch?  Where to mount the switch?  Switch type, part number?  Is there a wiring schematic?
* Other ideas?  Suggestions?

Funny; I have seen a lot of minis with additional lighting on them but I don't recall ever seeing them on.  Of course I did see them in the day time so that may explain that.

Thanks for your help, suggestions, and information.

Regards
Tim